I apologize for the lack of updates on the journal recently; things have been quite busy at $WORK and I’m also trying to kick off some extracurricular creative projects.
Our corporate e-mail system is Novell Groupwise and I am continually amazed at all its unnecessary features, while lamenting the fact that really useful features are nonexistent. This feature imbalance makes me think that the entire system was designed by senior marketing executives at Novell and targeted solely at C-level executives who have secretaries and don’t actually know how to use computers.
For starters, here are some truly useless or unnecessary features that I’ve found:
- Junk Calendaring – the ability to block “junk” appointments from the Internet. When was the last time a spammer sent you a junk iCal?
- Phone Message – you can literally send someone an electronic version of those pink “while you were out” messages.
- About fifteen different ways to print out your calendar
- The fact that the title bar of the application changes whenever you highlight a dropdown menu item (did they never hear of a status bar?)
- Checklist – What the hell is this for?
- Saving of e-mails and attachments always defaults to C:NovellGroupwise
- Saving of a Groupwise e-mail in “Groupwise Classic” format saves it as a .DOC but it’s really a WordPerfect file… what the heck?
And here are some features that vary from useful to critical in an enterprise MUA, but aren’t implemented:
- Ability to send calendar items in iCal format so you can actually interchange with other non-Groupwise users
- Use of the X-Priority header to set priority rather than putting *** High Priority *** as the first line of urgent messages
- Better spam handling. Having a block list would be useful to start; Bayesian filtering.
- Having the “Forward” action (in Rules) not wrap the source message in another message envelope
- Mailing lists
- Ability to manage Rules from within Web Access
- PGP/GnuPG integration
- Ability to modify distribution lists of appointments without having to retract the entire item and send it again
- True cross-platform client — the Linux client is awful and requires many hacks to make it work on non-SuSE Linux sysetms
I’m sure I’ll think of other things. I’m curious to know: Who out there is still using Groupwise? (i.e. hasn’t switched yet to Microsoft Exchange)
I'm going to challenge you on a few things although yes there's things GroupWise could do better.
The "phone message" option dates back to the GroupWise 4.x years if I'm not mistaken. They did not suddenly decide to add that in the last 10 years and say wow we're cool, they just never took it out. It's not hurting you by being there and occasionally you can shock someone by using it because it really stands out.
As far as the title bar changing, and why they don't use a status bar.. When you are selecting a menu option, where are your eyes fixated? At the top of the application window or the bottom? At the top. The application title bar is at the top. The status bar is at the bottom. I much prefer it this way instead of playing vertical ping pong with peoples eye balls. Just because everyone else does it one way doesn't mean it's the best way for everything.
On the 15 different ways to print your calendar, just because you only need one way doesn't mean everyone does. Why would you complain about choices? This should be a negative against products that don't offer this variety and a positive for GroupWise.
Checklist: If you can't figure out a good use for it, don't use it. Again, it's not hurting you. Lots of other people use it.
"Ability to send calendar items in iCal format so you can actually interchange with other non-Groupwise users"
Since GroupWise 7 it's sent them out as appointments using the universal resource name. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa579778….
Looking at the raw e-mail you would see something such as
urn:content-classes:calendarmessage
MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative; boundary="=__PartB79C3AD5.0__="
Item Type: Appointment
Start Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 2009, 08:00:00am (Central Daylight Time)
Duration: 1 Hour
Test appointment
I don't have an Outlook client handy, but I know Zimbra recognizes this as an appointment and will happily accept it. iCal would be nice however as it's more supported I think, but this should work as well in modern clients.
On the rest of your points I more or less agree with all of them. I would actually prefer you to be given an option with the forwarding behavior as you are when you forward a message manually.
What version of GroupWise are you using. GroupWise has been able to send iCal appointments since version 7.
<cite>True cross-platform client — the Linux client is awful and requires many hacks to make it work on non-SuSE Linux sysetms</cite>
This cross platform client called "Liaison" will be publically available for Christmas '09.
I love these kind of posts – some are real and are some are just plain crazy 🙂 So from where I sit these are my thoughts on your thoughts
* Junk Calendaring – the ability to block “junk” appointments from the Internet. When was the last time a spammer sent you a junk iCal?
THis is actually a really good attack vector – especially with an Exchange system… The GW system has both a system to detect such an attack but also a way of allowing users to junk or block them on an individual basis… Imagine someone sending you an iCal appointment for every day for then next 10 years, and then sending you a 100 or so…
* Phone Message – you can literally send someone an electronic version of those pink “while you were out” messages.
I love this one – I have never sent one, but I do recieve them from other members of staff – I travel a lot to clients and this lets me know who is chaing me really easily
* About fifteen different ways to print out your calendar
Yes, choice is good – I have never printed my clendar so I see your point…
* The fact that the title bar of the application changes whenever you highlight a dropdown menu item (did they never hear of a status bar?)
Eyeline – poor egranomics – that is why MS have change to the SLAB in Office 2007
* Checklist – What the hell is this for?
Think tasks – in GW8 this has become a full blown task tracking system – not a project management solution but a personal task management system – in older versions it was like the kitchen fridge check list – some love it – some less so.
* Saving of e-mails and attachments always defaults to C:NovellGroupwise
True – settable in the Linux version though 🙂
* Saving of a Groupwise e-mail in “Groupwise Classic” format saves it as a .DOC but it’s really a WordPerfect file… what the heck?
There is a lot of history with WordPerfect – remember that Novell bought WordPerfect and that is where all this bagage came from. In GW8 we can drag an drop emails from GW into folders or other types of Document Management system – something that should have happened ages ago..
These are more interesting – indeed constructive critisisom is great – there is a web site at http://www.novell.com/enhancement
And here are some features that vary from useful to critical in an enterprise MUA, but aren’t implemented:
* Ability to send calendar items in iCal format so you can actually interchange with other non-Groupwise users
Erm – That arrived with GroupWise 6.5 SP3.. It is a setting that an admin has to enable, but that was added 5 years ago!
* Use of the X-Priority header to set priority rather than putting *** High Priority *** as the first line of urgent messages
What!! You want to send a high priority message across the internet LOL!!! No! One of my favourate features is the ability change all X-Prioity headers out of all inbound messages.
* Better spam handling. Having a block list would be useful to start; Bayesian filtering.
It does – it has to be enabled by the admin – but as I say above in the iCal Junk you can junk, block, block domain and indeed set it so that you can block all messages other than the addresses held in your address books.
* Having the “Forward” action (in Rules) not wrap the source message in another message envelope
It does – it depends upon where you are forwarding to as well – if you want to forward all messages to your hotmail account (yes it happens and I can stop that :-)) and the rule adds no text to the message then it will be forwarded with nothing extra in the message and the recipient can see the message as coming from the original sender – Great for a small trusted userbase but in a large corp it is considered to be a data leak
* Mailing lists
Make your own DL – simple really, you can have 65535 of them. Or create a resource that you share with others and create DLs in there
* Ability to manage Rules from within Web Access
You can. Options/Rules
* PGP/GnuPG integration
This is as such a pain – there is SMIME that will do almost the same and indeed once created correctly is as secure
* Ability to modify distribution lists of appointments without having to retract the entire item and send it again
That was added in GW8
* True cross-platform client — the Linux client is awful and requires many hacks to make it work on non-SuSE Linux sysetms
Sounds like you are not on GW8 – the functionallity of the GW8 client is more than the Windows GW7 client – indeed I wsitched to SLED when I got hold of my GW8 beta linux client.
I’m sure I’ll think of other things. I’m curious to know: Who out there is still using Groupwise? (i.e. hasn’t switched yet to Microsoft Exchange)
I am doing two migrations later this year, but I am upgrading Exchange to GroupWise – I don't do downgrades to Exchange…
All the best – keep coming up with new ideas and I will endevor to assist 🙂
Good luck and get upgraded to GW8
Tim Heywood (AKA TimScotland)
We still use/love GroupWise. Over 5000+ users.
I would like to know what client Microsoft has for running on my linux machine?
Well, you are definitely a GW advocate 😉 GroupWise is still #3 in the email market, so there are lots of users out there who find the 'unnessary features" useful and when they lack a feature, they can file an Enhancement request, which is common in the GW commnity if you follow the lists and forums.
About the unnessary features:
* Junk Calendaring – Microsoft uses this feature in Outlook as well.
* Phone Message – if you don't use it, NP.
* Ways to print the calendar – again, feel free to use it, or not. People have asked for this, otherwise it wouldn't be there.
* The (title) bar changes whenever … – correct, IMO a disturbance, for me when I select a system folder like Mailbox or Calendar.
* Checklist – very useful IMO. Things still to do.
* Saving defaults to C:NovellGroupwise – not true, this can be set to any locations in Tools – Options.
* Saving e-mail in “Groupwise Classic” format … – in GW8 you can save as text, RTF or Mime.
About the missing features: (like said, you can file an Enhancement request, which is common in the GW commnity if you follow the lists and forums)
* Ability to send calendar items in iCal format – is working in GW8.
* Better spam handling – depends on the AV/ASpam solution IMO, for which there are great solutions by the GW partner community (see for instance http://gwcheck.com/dpml/av-spam-solutions)
* “Forward” action (in Rules) not wrap the source message in another message envelope – this requires a setting on the GWIA so can be set.
* Mailing lists – what about it? There is NNTP support, view in threads and RSS support.
* Manage Rules from Web Access – Enhancement request.
* PGP/GnuPG integration – this feature is added by GW partners AFAIK, so third party.
* Modify distribution lists of appointments without having to retract the entire item and send it again – works in GW8.
* True cross-platform client — did you see the GW8 Linux client? (http://gwcheck.com/dpml/gw8-linux-client)
Feel free to mail me off-line.
Gert
Owner, independent consultant http://www.GWCheck.com
"the best GW site" – Tay Kratzer
gert@gwcheck.com
1677@gwpoa.com
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"How should I know if it works?
That's what beta testers are for.
I only coded it." – Linus Torvalds
Lakehead Public Schools in Thunder Bay is using GroupWise and is very happy with it. Thunder Bay Regional Hospital is using GW as well.
I don't understand your distaste for choices that GW offers. If you don't use them, ignore them. I doubt you use all the features in Word or Excel.
Is GW perfect? No, but it is a solid platform that is still widely used and still growing.
@shootdawg, tried the public beta of Outlook Web Access 2010 yet? I can only dream of the GroupWise WebAccess client being so close in functionality to the full client.
@jdunn, my organization also still runs GroupWise, and I feel your pain.
Re: Junk mail, Block lists, etc. As an admin, I'd just as soon see this whole feature go away. It's next to useless as spam-control (any company big enough to be implementing Groupwise ought to have a REAL spam filter at the perimeter anyway), and it's caused us in the IT Dept. multiple headaches from users not knowing what they're doing – half the time when we get a call about someone not getting emails from a particular source, it's because they've "inadvertently" added them to their Junk or Block list.
As I think you've probably figured out by now, many of your "dislikes" are either because you are on an older version of GroupWise, or you've just never found the features. And by the way, as a Mac user (formerly a Linux user and before that a Windows user) I have to say that the 8.01 Mac/Linux client is really nice. Not quite up to the feature set of Windows, but so very close. The only item that you mention as a negative that really is a "functional negative" and not just a misunderstanding of the abilities of GroupWise (or even an option your admin probably overlooked and didn't turn on), is the PGP/GnuPG integration.
Danita
By the way, some of us who "ganged up" on you came from the NGW list — subscribe at ngw-request@ngwlist.com (and usually at http://ngwlist.com too). This is a technical support mailing list for GroupWise admins and users. We're not affiliated with Novell, although some Novell staff do participate. Please come join us; we really want to help you make the best use of your GroupWise application.
BTW, GroupWise does support the X-Priority headers, but it can be switched off by the admin: http://www.novell.com/documentation/gw8/gw8_admin…
X-Priority is actually a non-standard header (as the X- indicates); GW should really be using one of the Message Quality headers from RFC2076 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2076#section-3.9
I'll be submitting one of those Feature Enhancement Requests to get GW to conform to the RFCs for priority headers.
–Bob.